Widescreen Gaming Forum

Well I'm sure much of it is automated. VAC stuff is all automated for example. I wouldn't be surprised if some account stuff is as well.

You kind of have to wonder how many people actually work and maintain Steam on a daily basis. Often a game will pop up for sale when it isn't really out yet, due to a time fluke, and it can take 12 hours to simply remove the game fom the released list.

[quote]Guilty until proven innocent, mate. Been that way for years now.

Yeah, that is what irritates me.
I think if there is a suspected TOS violation they should send you an email saying you have X number of days to explain the issue, or else your account will be disabled. A suspected hack could be an exception, I suppose, since the more days he plays the more chance of a VAC ban.
I have to agree on this one.
Sometimes I wish I had some better money, an unlimited daytime and wouldn't care to sue directly in case something like that happened...
and I would ask for compensation for the loss of several hours of gaming ! :lol:

They can take their EULA's and stuff it, they aren't legally binding, in the U.S anyhow. I didn't buy a license to use Monopoly, I bought Monopoly. Just because I can't hold the data doesn't mean I didn't buy that program. It's mine.

Only with data does it seem companies think they can get away with garbage like "Oh you bought a license, not the product." BS I did, I bought your game.

Actually. You still don't "own" it.

You didn't create the content. They own the copyrights and trademarks to the content you are using. You don't own any of it. Saying it's yours is wrong. ;)

There have been mixed wins and losses in courts over EULAs. I think it could go either way. In the days of old, things might not have been so clear as they are now. If taken to court nowadays, there might be a chance that you'll lose against a EULA.



Anyway, as for some of you complaining about them disabling access to all of your games, you seem to be misunderstanding one thing: you are violating "Steam's" terms of service, not an individual game. Therefore, they disable your Steam account. That would be like going into a mall and causing havoc in one particular store, and getting banned from the mall. Even though you didn't mess with any of the other stores, you still violated the mall's policies and other rules.


There's really no reason to be worried. Don't do anything that violates the terms of service and you'll be fine.

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Anyway, as for some of you complaining about them disabling access to all of your games, you seem to be misunderstanding one thing: you are violating "Steam's" terms of service, not an individual game. Therefore, they disable your Steam account. That would be like going into a mall and causing havoc in one particular store, and getting banned from the mall. Even though you didn't mess with any of the other stores, you still violated the mall's policies and other rules.

I understand your point, but the mall analogy is incomplete. If I had to buy an entrance pass to enter and patronize each of the stores inside the mall--totaling dozens or even 100+ passes in my wallet--but I caused a disturbance in one store, how easy would it be for the mall to ban me from the entire facility? That one store would revoke my pass, sure, but I doubt mall authorities would even try a wholesale ban.

Terms of service or not, Valve's reaction was overkill.

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I didn't create my dresser either, doesn't mean if I use the dresser for purposes they don't like the dresser company is going to come to my house and take their dresser back.

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing the law. I'm sure they have their garbage in there that says they have magical legal powers to revoke a bought product. I'm telling you, on common sense, they can't just take something back that I compensated them for, just because they don't like what I do with it.

I don't know of any cases where somebody lost against the EULA where they weren't violating DMCA anyway.

I understand your point, but the mall analogy is incomplete. If I had to buy an entrance pass to enter and patronize each of the stores inside the mall--totaling dozens or even 100+ passes in my wallet--but I caused a disturbance in one store, how easy would it be for the mall to ban me from the entire facility? That one store would revoke my pass, sure, but I doubt mall authorities would even try a wholesale ban.

No. Because the stores are still within the mall. If you cause havoc in one of the store, then the mall security will come and throw you off the premises. If you caused havoc in one store, why would the other stores want you to enter their stores? They would likely all ban you on top of the mall throwing you out.

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing the law. I'm sure they have their garbage in there that says they have magical legal powers to revoke a bought product. I'm telling you, on common sense, they can't just take something back that I compensated them for, just because they don't like what I do with it.

In the case of Steam, they can. You specifically agreed to their terms of service when you created your account with Steam. Within that ToS, they explained what's allowed and not allowed. An EULA is not a ToS, and a ToS will be upheld in a court far greater than an EULA. "This is our service, we allow you access to our service provided you follow these rules. If you don't like it, you don't have to use our service."

It's like your cable company, phone provider, or whatever. You use their service. If you don't pay your bill, or you violate the ToS, they can terminate your service, even if you spent thousands paying for that service.

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In the case of Steam, they can. You specifically agreed to their terms of service when you created your account with Steam. Within that ToS, they explained what's allowed and not allowed. An EULA is not a ToS, and a ToS will be upheld in a court far greater than an EULA. "This is our service, we allow you access to our service provided you follow these rules. If you don't like it, you don't have to use our service."

It's like your cable company, phone provider, or whatever. You use their service. If you don't pay your bill, or you violate the ToS, they can terminate your service, even if you spent thousands paying for that service.

Indeed, but in this case you are combining a service with purchased content... even if that content is a license. The phone company selling you a headset is generally unrelated to whether you keep your service.

I think analogies try to simplify something that isn't simple in this case... the end of the line is that the games on steam are marketed as a purchase of the game, and the EULA is not read, and these are the same things which caused courts to rule on the consumer's side in previous cases. How it is changed by being part of a service is not really clear, I would guess, from a legal challenge point of view.

Losing all your games on Steam could be seen as analogous to the mall repossessing everything you ever bought from its stores, I guess.

No. Because the stores are still within the mall. If you cause havoc in one of the store, then the mall security will come and throw you off the premises. If you caused havoc in one store, why would the other stores want you to enter their stores? They would likely all ban you on top of the mall throwing you out.

I didn't fully explain my point, which is the substantial monetary investment the person has in the various store memberships. Could a person do something that legitimately earns a ban from the facility? Sure, but in such a business model they should be refunded all applicable membership fees along with the "you are no longer welcome" designation.

The ambiguity of the supposed incident we are discussing doesn't help clarify things, so let's apply the Steam case to the mall metaphor. What exactly was the offense? A customer bought a product offered by a mall store from a retailer outside of the mall. How does that qualify for a total ban from the facility?

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