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PostPosted: 07 Oct 2009, 08:58 
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Joined: 04 Oct 2009, 09:11
Posts: 46
I think it´s safe to say if AMD/ATI from the start had set out to make Eyefinity available to the masses (IE people with DVI/HDMI connections) the cost per card for doing this would have been almost negligable compared to the current $100 we have to fork up now for an active 3rd party adapter.
...
To me Dave´s comments about ATI talking to 3rd party developers about active adapters now just confirms my thoughts about Eyefinity and the DP-solution being somewhat of an afterthought in the 5800 design process. If this was the plan from the start, shouldn´t they have started these "talks" waaay back and made sure there were active adapters available en masse at launch?


You will find that if anyone is the villain in all this, it is probably me.

We had a pretty strict budget for the cost of the product, a budget that I am responsible for setting and holding everyone accountable for. When we (mostly myself and one other guy) came up with the Eyefinity idea, the budget was oversubscribed, and I was pruning features. The only way I could get Eyefinity in at all was make it as close to zero cost as I could. The cost per chip is not negligible - additional timing sources were in all probability a complete deal-killer. While I have some latitude about what goes into a chip, in the end I have to justify everything I do. I had a choice, and you know which one I took

As for working with external sources for active adapters, it's a bit more complicated. Eyefinity was kept under very tight security, which made it very difficult to work with anyone outside of AMD. Who created and oversaw this security regime, and limited outside contacts? Ummm, that would be me again. AMD gave me quite a bit of freedom as an Eyefinity creator, and one of the things I insisted on was very tight security within the company and almost no-one outside the company knowing about it. I deliberately did not support external developments in the name of security. There were many other folks, including Rick Bergman, who wanted more public engagement. I was rather obstinate about not allowing that.

I was willing to take the risk that some supporting developments would come later in the interests of having a competitive surprise.

You can justifiably criticize me all you want for the results of the preceding. My prediction is however that most of these issues will be solved by market forces in relatively short order.

SunSp*t


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PostPosted: 07 Oct 2009, 09:26 
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Joined: 25 Sep 2009, 15:45
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No comments other than a deep thanks for joining in with the discussion on the forums SunSp*t, it's very refreshing to have such an insight into the whole product development. I definitely get the impression that Eyefinity is something of a labour of love and it's very interesting to hear how it's approval was gained in the company.


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PostPosted: 07 Oct 2009, 09:53 
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Joined: 06 Sep 2009, 10:35
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SunSp*t, you are ignoring me and my questions, aren't you?


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PostPosted: 07 Oct 2009, 12:41 
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Joined: 06 Sep 2006, 01:20
Posts: 228
SunSp*t, you are ignoring me and my questions, aren't you?


Take a chill pill please.

We have two guys who work at the heart of Eyefinity willing to take the time and effort to post here when they can and answer questions and, hopefully, take back suggestions. We want to keep them interested in our views not hack them off.

Please don't alienate them for the rest of us by personalising any issues and thinking that you are the only one here of importance.


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PostPosted: 07 Oct 2009, 12:45 
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Joined: 06 Sep 2009, 10:35
Posts: 45
[quote]SunSp*t, you are ignoring me and my questions, aren't you?


Take a chill pill please.

We have two guys who work at the heart of Eyefinity willing to take the time and effort to post here when they can and answer questions and, hopefully, take back suggestions. We want to keep them interested in our views not hack them off.

Please don't alienate them for the rest of us by personalising any issues and thinking that you are the only one here of importance.

Actually I was just wondering whether I should send him flowers and a box of whiskey to make him act no so offended by my criticism :)


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PostPosted: 07 Oct 2009, 13:04 
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Joined: 14 Oct 2003, 13:52
Posts: 5706
[quote]SunSp*t, you are ignoring me and my questions, aren't you?


Take a chill pill please.

We have two guys who work at the heart of Eyefinity willing to take the time and effort to post here when they can and answer questions and, hopefully, take back suggestions. We want to keep them interested in our views not hack them off.

Please don't alienate them for the rest of us by personalising any issues and thinking that you are the only one here of importance.
This. ;)

The insight that both have provided has proven enlightening so far. :) I want to know more. ;)


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PostPosted: 07 Oct 2009, 19:53 
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Joined: 29 Sep 2009, 08:29
Posts: 9
Wow I am pretty impressed with all the AMD community support here, I guess you guys really know your user base. :)

Now that we have established the following:

- Yes you need an active adapter.

- No, its not gonna get fixed on the chip.

- Yes, its all sunspots fault for wanting to give us this cool feature. How dare he anyway? :)

Can we move on to a different topic? I'm tired of pages and pages of active adapter comments with no real info.

For those who saw the FERMI prototype it looks like a 2 port solution. I seriously doubt Nvidia is offering any competition in this arena. So unless you want to pay $200+ for a Matrox "adapter" limited to 3840x1024 or want the performance hit of SoftTH guess your gonna go with AMD. Maybe we can move on to the real questions now ... please!?

:?: Linux support? :?:

:?: Future possibility of 4960x1600 SLS with P L P configuration in Linux/Windows? :?:

Thank you!
:) :D :lol:


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PostPosted: 07 Oct 2009, 20:29 
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Joined: 27 Sep 2009, 22:02
Posts: 49

:?: Linux support? :?:

:?: Future possibility of 4960x1600 SLS with P L P configuration in Linux/Windows? :?:

Thank you!
:) :D :lol:


Totally agree :) We need full Linux support on the 5800 series ASAP. Just good 2d will do for now, but that's not even available yet ?

And for sure we need Portrait + Landscape + Portrait mode to work. I know tons of 30" Display owners that would love to add 20" monitors flipped upright in Portrait mode to allow for all three displays to have a 1600 resolution vertical height. Just don't understand why that is such a big problem ?


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PostPosted: 07 Oct 2009, 22:20 
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Joined: 06 May 2006, 12:46
Posts: 1640
[quote]I think it´s safe to say if AMD/ATI from the start had set out to make Eyefinity available to the masses (IE people with DVI/HDMI connections) the cost per card for doing this would have been almost negligable compared to the current $100 we have to fork up now for an active 3rd party adapter.
...
To me Dave´s comments about ATI talking to 3rd party developers about active adapters now just confirms my thoughts about Eyefinity and the DP-solution being somewhat of an afterthought in the 5800 design process. If this was the plan from the start, shouldn´t they have started these "talks" waaay back and made sure there were active adapters available en masse at launch?


You will find that if anyone is the villain in all this, it is probably me.

We had a pretty strict budget for the cost of the product, a budget that I am responsible for setting and holding everyone accountable for. When we (mostly myself and one other guy) came up with the Eyefinity idea, the budget was oversubscribed, and I was pruning features. The only way I could get Eyefinity in at all was make it as close to zero cost as I could. The cost per chip is not negligible - additional timing sources were in all probability a complete deal-killer. While I have some latitude about what goes into a chip, in the end I have to justify everything I do. I had a choice, and you know which one I took

As for working with external sources for active adapters, it's a bit more complicated. Eyefinity was kept under very tight security, which made it very difficult to work with anyone outside of AMD. Who created and oversaw this security regime, and limited outside contacts? Ummm, that would be me again. AMD gave me quite a bit of freedom as an Eyefinity creator, and one of the things I insisted on was very tight security within the company and almost no-one outside the company knowing about it. I deliberately did not support external developments in the name of security. There were many other folks, including Rick Bergman, who wanted more public engagement. I was rather obstinate about not allowing that.

I was willing to take the risk that some supporting developments would come later in the interests of having a competitive surprise.

You can justifiably criticize me all you want for the results of the preceding. My prediction is however that most of these issues will be solved by market forces in relatively short order.

SunSp*t

I can definitely understand the need for non-disclosure. Really, it's a moot point now though. What is done is done and everyone has the reasoning for it. With that out of the way though I think it would be a good target goal to seek a third party that would be capable of making cost effective DP/mini-DP to Single-Link DVI active adapters. On the 6-port card, $400 in adapters is still a bit "out there" as far as enthusiast pricing. If the street price for a single-link active adapter could be out sourced for $30-35 all the controversy and issues are then gone. I am definitely looking forward to the 6-port card.

I set up my first 2 projectors yesterday and get the 3rd delivered tomorrow. The current 12x7 foot wall sized projection is mind blowing. I'm typing this message on the projection setup. Adding that third projector tomorrow will give me 180 degree 13x6.5 foot circular projection for my gaming room. All I'm waiting for now is the 6-port card and some cheap adapters. Simulator games are going to be great with this. I was playing World of Warcraft last night on the setup too. WoW can do 180 degree FOV, so it'll be ideal. :wink:

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Nthusim Pty. Ltd. | www.nthusim.com


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PostPosted: 07 Oct 2009, 22:22 
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Joined: 29 Jul 2007, 05:24
Posts: 1512
Location: NZ
Yeah remember the Fermi board was a hack-job cut up fake tho! So we have no idea as to the outputs it will have. Still, as I have Win7 working at 5040, I will now wait until Fermi info is more firm (bom bom!) until I go to EF. However NV will have to work bloody hard to beat EF, I can stomach a 100 US adaptor. And maybe by the end of the year the cheaper single link ones will be out?. However, as it stands, the 5870 doesn't beat my 280SLI and cross fire isn't available. So I can wait.

And Sunsp*t, thanks for sticking your head in, Dave B. too. We appreciate your insight :D

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